I am researching information for a book that is looking at links and a theory about religion between megalithic Irish/british and egyptian megalithic peoples, can you refer me to such.
Can you also confirm dating of new grange to 5000bc by processional
calculation (ie computer program) and what of Stone Henge?
I also note you use the same precessional computer program and technique as Robert Bauval.

Robert

Robert,

First up, welcome to the forum. I'm not entirely sure what it is you're looking for, but I imagine you want some material in which comparative studies are carried out looking at similarities between Ireland and Egypt. If you're read Bauval then you've probably read the Orion Mystery (Gilbert et al) and Hancock's books - Fingerprints of the Gods, Heaven's Mirror, Keeper of Genesis.

Our own work, Island of the Setting Sun, gives a very comprehensive overview of the sort of ritual astronomy being carried out in ancient Ireland, a cosmology which envisioned a unity between heaven and earth and in which the spirit world lay among the stars.

Newgrange is dated to circa 3,150BC by archaeologists and the astronomical evidence tends to support that dating. (Again, refer to Island of the Settting Sun, chapters 7 & .

We could, alternatively, start a discussion here in which we can look at the links between Ireland and Egypt. My co-author, Richard, has long been fascinated by the links with Egypt which he saw in the Irish literature. Unfortunately, he's not on internet/email but if you want to throw some questions at us I'd be glad to get him along here to provide some of the answers.

thanks for your reply anthony,
yes, you are correct, I have read all those writers, and weighting the information I think they are on solid ground. My area of interest is religion and culture as well as architecture. I can clearly see the links and I have a theory i want to explore, or more precisely have been exploring for some years, of course, spacific expert reference material is not easy to come by when we are dealing with ancient peoples. I feel that most writers come to the wrong conclusions about ancient religion because they themselves are not very religious, if at all.
For example Lug of the silver hand, sun god, had one eye, or an eye put out, or put someones eye out; Horus had his eye put out in a fight with set......we have the all seeing eye of horus.... the all seeing eye today of god(very Catholic) and the all seeing eye of the Masons; connection, yes.

In my work I want to explore this symbolically.
It all seems to start......in Ireland or in Egypt
Take the corbal construction method of the megelithic structures in Ireland /britain and note the corbal construction of the pyrmids. The Grand gallery for instance.

Yes I would like to read your book, can I get it from a retailer here?
Thanks for the interest

robert

Two questions regarding my research,
T.W. Rolleston in his book Celtic states that the passage way at New Grange faces 'exactly south- East'. Does this match your research;

The Sphinx faces due east ie toward the vernal equinox, a special time for ancient peoples, and the rising of certain stars of the Zodiac.

second question, related to first ( I think)

My Father, a Kerryman, knew a poem by heart, called 'the burial of King Cormac'
He promised to write it down for me, before he passed away but never did, (he had to have a beer or two to recall these poems)
I could only remember 2 verses of it.

These verses are on his tombstone.

very recently I found the poem on the net
It is found in the 'Atlas & Cyclopedia of Ireland 1900' and is by a Dr. Ferguson.

According to that information King Cormac died 266AD at Clitach, on the Boyne.

Here are the two verses I recalled

'spread not the beds of Brugh for me, when restless death beds use is done:
but bury me at Ross na ri and face me toward the rising sun.

For all the kings who lie in brugh put trust in gods of wood and stone.

And 'twas at Ross that first I knew One unseen, who is god alone'

etc

Cormac is discribed as the first 'christian' king of Ireland but infact nowhere in the poem is christ mentioned.

Perhaps there was a pre-existing Celtic belief in an unseen all powerful god,

for in the fourth century BC the Celtic General Brennos who captured the Greek shrine at Delphi, according to Diodorus Siculus
' when he encounted only images of wood and stone, laughted at them, to think that the gods had human form, should erect their images in wood and stone. (The Celtic Cross by N Pennick)

The question is can I find more material to back up the idea that the Celts had a pre-christian faith in a monotheist god, One unseen?

regards robert



[quote][/quote]

waiting for a reply; think the site is excellent and easy to use.
reading some other comments I see there is a discussion that Ireland 'might' be ancient Atlantis. At present I am reading The Atlantis Blueprint by Rand Flem-ath and Colin Wilson. The 1665 Kircher Map of Atlantis does look a bit like Ireland, but it also looks more like greenland in shape, of course Flem-ath identifies it with ice -free antarctica.
I would like to know your comments about this, as he has a very good argument.

The Burial of King Cormac

" 'Crom Cruach and his sub-gods twelve,'
Said Cormac, 'are but craven treene;
The ax that made them, haft or helve,
Had worthier of our worship been:

" 'But He who made the tree to grow,
And hid in earth the iron-stone,
And made the man with mind to know
The ax's use, is God alone.' "

The Druids hear of this fearful speech, and are horrified:

"Anon to priests of Crom was brought
(Where girded in their service dread
They ministered on red Moy Slaught)
Word of the words King Cormac said.

"They loosed their curse against the king,
They cursed him in his flesh and bones
And daily in their mystic ring
They turned the maledictive stones."

At length one day comes the news to them that the king is dead, "choked upon the food he ate," and they exultantly sound "the praise of their avenging god." Cormac, before he dies, however, leaves as his last behest, a direction that he shall not be interred in the old pagan cemetery of the kings at Brugh, but at Ross-na-ri:

"But ere the voice was wholly spent
That priest and prince should still obey,
To awed attendants o'er him bent
Great Cormac gathered breath to say:

"'Spread not the beds of Brugh for me,
When restless death-bed's use is done;
But bury me at Ross-nar-ee,
And face me to the rising sun.

"'For all the kings who lie in Brugh
Put trust in gods of wood and stone;
And 'twas at Ross that first I knew
One Unseen, who is God alone.

"'His glory lightens from the east,
His message soon shall reach our shore,
And idol-god and cursing priest
Shall plague us from Moy Slaught no more.' "

King Cormac dies, and his people one and all are shocked at the idea of burying him anywhere save in the ancient pagan cemetery where all his great forefathers repose. They agree that he must have been raving when he desired otherwise; and they decide to bury him in Brugh, where his grandsire, Conn of the hundred Battles, lies armor-clad, upright, hound at foot and spear in hand:

"Dead Cormac on his bier they laid:
'He reigned a king for forty years;
And shame it were,' his captains said,
'He lay not with his royal peers:

"'His grandsire, Hundred Battles, sleeps
Serene in Brugh, and all around
Dead kings, in stone sepulchral keeps,
Protect the sacred burial ground.

"'What though a dying man should rave
Of changes o'er the eastern sea,
In Brugh of Boyne shall be his grave,
And not in noteless Ross-na-ree.'

"Then northward forth they bore the bier,
And down from Sleithac's side they drew
With horseman and with charioteer,
To cross the fords of Boyne to Brugh."

Suddenly "a breath of finer air" touches the river "with rustling wings."

"And as the burial train came down
With dirge, and savage dolorous shows,
Across their pathway broad and brown,
The deep full-hearted river rose.

"From bank to bank through all his fords,
Neath blackening squalls he swelled and boiled,
And thrice the wond'ring gentile lords
Essay'd to cross, and thrice recoil'd.

"Then forth stepped gray-haired warriors four;
They said: 'Through angrier floods than these,
On link'd shield once our King we bore
From Dread-spear and the hosts of Deece;

"'And long as loyal will holds good,
And limbs respond with helpful thews,
Nor flood nor fiend within the flood
Shall bar him of his burial dues.' "

So they lift the bier, and step into the boiling: surge.

"And now they slide and now they swim,
And now amid the blackening squall,
Gray locks afloat with clutchings grim,
They plunge around the floating pall.

"While as a youth with practiced spear
Through justling crowds bears off the ring--
Boyne from their shoulders caught the bier,
And proudly bare away the King!"

The foaming torrent sweeps the coffin away; next day it is found far down the river, stranded on the bank under Ross-na-ri; the last behest of Cormac is fulfilled after all!

"At morning on the grassy marge
Of Ross-na-ree the corpse was found,
And shepherds at their early charge,
Entombed it in the peaceful ground.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"And life and time rejoicing run
From age to age their wonted way;
But still he waits the risen Sun,
For still it is only dawning Day."


Lovely isn't it.
I'm sure it's translated from an ancient gaelic original
what do you think?

Well, I have been in semi-regular communication with Ulf Erlingsson, author of the Atlantis book which places it, geographically, in Ireland, or "as" Ireland so to speak.

He has indeed a good argument, but ultimately Atlantis seems to be some antideluvian memory of a past world which was drowned in a great flood.

Interestingly, there are some Irish myths and folk legends which suggest great underwater cities lie off the coast. One such myth is the Connemara story of Hy Brasil, said to appear once every seven years in the Atlantic. Another, which I've just recently come across, speaks of an underwater city off Blackrock, near Dundalk, Co. Louth. This folk legend tells that there is a great causeway underwater linking Blackrock with the Cooley peninsula.

A further legend in Drogheda, Co. Louth, speaks of a city which was destroyed by a flood. Co. Louth was in ancient times known as Mag Murthemne, the Plain Covered by the Sea (or something similar).

It is possible these are all localised memories of the great flood event.

Hi Anthony, yes I am convinced there was a highly advanced world wide antediluvian maritime civilization,dated to over 100,000 years ago, that has left us a huge puzzle as well as maps, zodiacs,measurement systems, architecture, written language, and a 'pure religion'; that is my investigation.
As for the 'Atlantis' base for our intellegent ancestors I am open minded to the theory of Ireland or Antarctica. Handcock believed a continent sized island was required to sustain that civilization. It must be admitted Antarctica is under the sea...a sea of ice. Also we have close by in the american continent what would have to be described as ancient architecture, built by unknowns, who have passed on knowlege of the zodiac, calenders, advanced maths, etc in the way of... Tianhuanaco
dated possibly to 15,000 BC (Flem Ath p51).

You know the Maori of New Zealand have a culture and language that dates back 5,000 years and they are first cousins of the Easter Islanders
who can be traced to Peru.The latest finding is; that bones of the 'Pacific island chicken' have been found in Peru. So we now know for sure that Pacific Islanders reached America. It's not such a big step to suggest that
they came out of there in the first place?

As a matter of fact, I was talking to a New Zealand missionry Nun who has spent many years in Peru, so I put the question to her if she thought they were the same people as Maori, Her answer was yes, "every now and then I bump into someone in the village that I sware I know from auckland!"

Is there any interest in this subject, as I have more information of interest.

Back to Ireland as Atlantis....Measurement;

Question; the english foot, is that the same as the Irish foot or did the celts or their ancesters, the Megalithic british/irish have a different system
I am refering to Berriman (Historical Metrology 1953) who claims the english foot/miles is the ancient celtic measurement system?

I have worked both in feet and meters and meters by far is the better system.......the point is; I seriously doubt that highly intellegent ancestors
could have invented such a crappy system as imperial feet and inches.

Sitchin gives a measurement base of 1.0594063 STU (standard Tiahuanaco Unit)

bye for now
Robert

Question; the english foot, is that the same as the Irish foot or did the celts or their ancesters, the Megalithic british/irish have a different system

The question is can I find more material to back up the idea that the Celts had a pre-christian faith in a monotheist god, One unseen?

And could this god be identified with Ra? Amun means Hidden or 'unseen'
Ra of course, being the cosmic god.

I would like to know about the Gaelic word Ri, or Re which is very close to the word Ra
I believe it means 'King'

Ross na Ri could this be connected to Ra,

The Masonic writers, Lomas and Knight, discusing Rosslyn, asked scottish
Gaelic speakers the meaning of ross lin, according to them Ross meant
'Knowledge.' ( Linn meant generation) Atlantis Blueprintp272
If this is correct,

Ross na ri (Ra) May originally mean something like

'The Knowledge of Ra' ??? What does anyone think about that?

King Cormac also wanted to be buried facing the rising sun East that is..... What star rises in the East apart from the sun?

Clyde Hostetter wrote a great book called Star Trek to Hawa-i'i which makes a very clear case for the Polynesian origins. Let me quote from the abstract of the book: "Polynesian origins in the Middle East and Persian Gulf are revealed in the fascinating odyssey by world traveler Clyde Hostetter. New discoveries in the Saudi Arabian desert and the jungles of equatorial Sumatra provide startling evidence that more than 4000 years ago the ancestors of today's Polynesians began to follow the stars from Mesopotamia to Sumatra and then on to Tahiti, Hawaii, New Zealand and Easter Island." Clyde did not set out to prove anything.
"The trek begins with the discovery of a group of secret eclipse-prediction symbols on an ancient chalice found in Saudi Arabia in 1976. It leads to the Delphic Oracle in Greece, cannibal tribesmen in the Sumatran highlands, Oahu beaches and the mujahideen of Afghanistan."
He talks a lot about the New Year of the Sumatra Bataks. This happened in May when Europeans finally penetrated the Sumatran jungles of Batakland. Instead of using the Sun as the benchmark, Batak religious leaders followed a tradition dependent upon a relationship between two fixed stars simultaneously sighted on opposite horizons, a task even more difficult than sighting the Sun through the jungle canopy. The two stars were Antares and Betelgeuse.
May 20 is approximately sixty days later than the Spring Equinox. In 2400 B.C. Antares and Betelgeuse were seen briefly together at sunset on opposite horizons at the time of a New Year celebration synchronized with the Spring Equinox. Hope this helps to move this discussion along.

Hi Barbara,
Thanks for that information, I will look into the book. By the way where is WV?

I have written a short paper that I think I will post up under a new heading. It goes a long way to answering/ confirming what 'Cup Holes' are, found on megalithic stones....which nobody seems to have a clue.
It also shows that Maori used the same 'stone age' advanced technology as Celtic/megalithic peoples, and used it into the time of european settelment, ie 1860's onward. Their culture fell apart fairly rapidly leaving some comentators to suggest that it wasn't a Culture at all. It is also correct that they looked for the helical rising of Antares.

To Anthony, I have ordered a copy of your book, Land of the setting sun it is not yet available in New Zealand.
thanks for the response. Look forward to more discussion

Robert

WV is West Virginia in the United States. It is all full of foot hills and mountains. I am very interested in this discussion. Thanks, Barbara

Rossnaree (Ross na Ri) actually means the "wooded point" or the "promontory" of the king. Rossnaree is near Newgrange. It is a high embankment overlooking the Bend of the Boyne.

I'll look up my Scottish Gaelic dictionary and see if there's any substance to your ross = "knowledge" suggestion. Very interesting.



Be careful here. There are those who would argue the Celts didn't have much influence in Ireland. It seems that in pre-Christian times, the ancient Irish had a pantheon of gods, so I'm not sure about the idea of a monotheistic system.

About the measurement system, there is a suggestion by Alexander Thom of a "megalithic yard", while in "Boyne Valley Vision", Martin Brennan did suggest that the monuments in the Boyne Valley were laid out according to a unit of measurement. Charles Scribner, an author referred to on this website and in our book, believed that the mile was a very ancient measurement and that it was linked to cosmic cycles.

Hello Barbara! I got your book in the post two days ago. Wonderful! A lovely work, and thanks very much for the credit. When I've had a chance to read it I'll be giving it a nice mention on this website. I love the way you write. Your first paragraph is beautiful. Well done to both of you.

Thanks, Anthony. The words are mostly Helen's. We collaborate on the ideas and I do the counting. It is quite synchronical with this discussion. Let's see what comes up.

Thanks Barbara, I guessed it may have been (West Virginia) Know the song well! Hints of a book, sounds interesting.


Anthony,